Kickstarter and BrewBot.IO Forums

For those of you with access to Kickstarter and BrewBot's own forums, I ask that you help drive traffic to this blog by adding a link to the bottom of any posts that you may make on these forums.

Continued visibility and access will be in everyone's best interests as it will help keep BrewBot's operations transparent - regardless of the outcomes.

Even though I received a partial refund, I do plan to continue to investigate and post my findings of BrewBot's operations to better understand what happened, how it happened, why it happened, and what, if anything can or should be done. I do think that a class action lawsuit is potentially warranted given the large sums and public money involved.

This will only work if we can gather many more backers.

Please help by posting: http://brewbotanswers.blogspot.com/ on your relevant posts.

Thank you.

Follow up on the refund question/process

It may take you a couple of months and some strong pressure (aka create a blog), but you too could perhaps get some/all of your funds returned. Here are the relevant emails I received from Chris regarding a refund and the long process. In my opinion, BrewBot is no longer a viable business and will be the subject of a future blog posting (tied to the FOI information I received).

After reaching out to Chris regarding BrewBot, on November 23, 2016 he replied:

Hey Ken,

Thanks for the message.

We are working on closing in on investment, but unfortunately the terms of that are confidential. Which is an awful position to be in from a communication perspective.

Brewbot is more than viable as a business, there is a mega opportunity here, however we do need production and R&D budget to do fulfill it. 

There are another couple of machines going out in the next couple of weeks. As a baseline we are getting there.

Would you like to jump on a call at some stage? more than happy to speak to you.

Thanks,

Chris

For followers of BrewBot and this blog, you will note that now four months later he is still using the same language in his communications and updates while trying to get an investment.

On December 9, 2016, after repeated requests for information and/or how a refund could be requested:

Hi Ken,

Please fill out the following form, thank you: https://docs.google.com/a/brewbot.io/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe-JUNMuNhoXC9KtbsQIpt2DNDbPgcYTay6MeQrn_0qhPdviQ/viewform

Chris

After immediately filling this out and asking what the next step(s)/timeline were I received this the same day:

I'm not sure at the moment. I've contacted Kickstarter about how to do this. Because it should be done via that system.

On it will get back to you.

Chris

On December 19th:

Hi Ken,

Don't really have an update on when we can do the transfer.

Kickstarter has changed a bunch from the time we were on it. We haven't really been given a clear understanding how we to do this now. A large % per pledge is taken through charges etc. So looks like with a refund we are going to take a hit on that.

We need to reallocate/release stock etc to do a refund. Working on this for you.

Chris

My exchange later that day:

On 19 Dec 2016, at 19:39, wrote: I would like to ensure we stay on top of this and keep it a priority. When can I expect to hear an update from you? I'd prefer a response such as this, versus not hearing anything. I do not feel that this is an unreasonable request and would like this resolved by Dec. 31st. without further escalation. Do you agree?

Ken

It is treated as a priority Ken, doing all we can to get this sorted.

Will update you, asap.

Chris 

Sent from my iPhone

On December 28th I begin to feel as if BrewBot isn't going to be around in the future...

Yes, committed to processing this refund, but it's very difficult to do. 




There are a ton of reasons for this difficulty for example: we've stock that we purchased Q4 2015, Q1 2016. The pound has dropped in value twice since then thanks to Trump/Brexit. We've been trying to sell parts in bulk to other brewing suppliers in the UK but they want to buy for much less than cost price. Everything is worth a fraction of what we paid for it. We are trying to firesale it so I can get you a refund which is decreasing the value even more. 




Unfortunately I can not give you a firm date or response, I really wish I could.



Chris





On January 9, 2017 I am still being delayed:



Yes, committed to processing this refund, but it's very difficult to do. 




There are a ton of reasons for this difficulty for example: we've stock that we purchased Q4 2015, Q1 2016. The pound has dropped in value twice since then thanks to Trump/Brexit. We've been trying to sell parts in bulk to other brewing suppliers in the UK but they want to buy for much less than cost price. Everything is worth a fraction of what we paid for it. We are trying to firesale it so I can get you a refund which is decreasing the value even more. 




Unfortunately I can not give you a firm date or response, I really wish I could.



Chris



Finally, January 13, 2017 and we have his plan:



Hi Ken,



I wanted to have a personal call so you know I'm real and I'm pouring my all into this. 



Things are really tough right now but I'm not walking away. I'm going to extraordinary measures to make it right. There are many stakeholders to consider. We've raised other money from people who also stand to lose all their investment if we can't navigate to a good outcome.  It won't help any of them if you turn up the heat. 



No promises that I can pull it out of the fire but I assure you I am working through all the options as well and as quickly as I can.




Lastly, I do have progress on your refund. £290 can be transferred via PayPal today. £800 will be transferred January 24, and the final £410 January 31. I hope this is amenable, if so please send me your PayPal address.



Thanks,



Chris



Progress report, January 24, 2017 was sent in two transactions. BrewBot clearly is experiencing cash flow issues and access to funds problems:



Hi Ken,

I sent £320 just now, the rest will be sent the minute it clears.

We'd sold a few items and the money was withheld since start of last week. 

eBay said it is due to be released today. I'll send it the minute it comes through. 

Best wishes,

Chris



On February 3, 2017 I noted that while I received the GBP 1,500 it didn't match my cash outlay (due to currency exchange fluctuations) and received the following reply:

Ken,
Thanks for confirming the receipt of your requested refund.



Pledges for UK Kickstarter campaigns are in GBP. I checked with Kickstarter and £1500 is the refund amount. It means that you are no longer a backer of the project.

We remain focussed on making Brewbot a success for all our stakeholders and supporters. That means I am not able to comment on anything that could potentially threaten that success. 

Chris 







Shortly after, I was removed from the Kickstarter access to the backers forum and BrewBot's own forum has the certificate expire. I am no longer able to provide an update for you anywhere but here.

Latest Invest NI FOI Response

Just received an update to my Invest NI freedom of information request. This included a copy of the Terms and Acceptance by Cargo IO (BrewBot). Just started reading this and will likely have another follow up with them regarding what appears to have been an important clause regarding business operations and a potential breach of contract (to be determined).

Anyone interested in learning more?

"Refunds" are possible

Have been away for a bit on Holiday, but want to get some further information out to those that are watching this blog.

While many have been patiently and impatiently waiting for Chris to deliver a BrewBot to them, many others have been asking about refunds or assumed that their money is lost.

I started emailing Chris in December, 2016 to see if after three years something factual could finally be shared and will post that email chain soon. I'm speculating, but it appears that the creation of this blog and posts on the Kickstarter and BrewBot Forums put some pressure on Chris to re-engage with the backers, but he still never delivered anything other than weak "news coming soon" type content.

While not specifically asking for one, I was eventually offered a refund by Chris, payable via Paypal, in installments over several weeks (obvious cash flow issues!). I accepted his offer and eventually received a total of approximately $1,750 of the $2,500 (USD) that Kickstarter removed from my account on October 22, 2013. Unfortunately, due to currency fluctuations, the value of my pledge in USD is now less than the GBP pledge amount of 1,500.

Brewbot and Kickstarter now believe that they have refunded me and my access to the forums has been revoked.

I disagree and will continue to pursue a refund in full, BrewBot and Kickstarter accountability, and perhaps some real answers for the backers on what happened, and what the plans are for BrewBot.