Kickstarter and BrewBot.IO Forums

For those of you with access to Kickstarter and BrewBot's own forums, I ask that you help drive traffic to this blog by adding a link to the bottom of any posts that you may make on these forums.

Continued visibility and access will be in everyone's best interests as it will help keep BrewBot's operations transparent - regardless of the outcomes.

Even though I received a partial refund, I do plan to continue to investigate and post my findings of BrewBot's operations to better understand what happened, how it happened, why it happened, and what, if anything can or should be done. I do think that a class action lawsuit is potentially warranted given the large sums and public money involved.

This will only work if we can gather many more backers.

Please help by posting: http://brewbotanswers.blogspot.com/ on your relevant posts.

Thank you.

Follow up on the refund question/process

It may take you a couple of months and some strong pressure (aka create a blog), but you too could perhaps get some/all of your funds returned. Here are the relevant emails I received from Chris regarding a refund and the long process. In my opinion, BrewBot is no longer a viable business and will be the subject of a future blog posting (tied to the FOI information I received).

After reaching out to Chris regarding BrewBot, on November 23, 2016 he replied:

Hey Ken,

Thanks for the message.

We are working on closing in on investment, but unfortunately the terms of that are confidential. Which is an awful position to be in from a communication perspective.

Brewbot is more than viable as a business, there is a mega opportunity here, however we do need production and R&D budget to do fulfill it. 

There are another couple of machines going out in the next couple of weeks. As a baseline we are getting there.

Would you like to jump on a call at some stage? more than happy to speak to you.

Thanks,

Chris

For followers of BrewBot and this blog, you will note that now four months later he is still using the same language in his communications and updates while trying to get an investment.

On December 9, 2016, after repeated requests for information and/or how a refund could be requested:

Hi Ken,

Please fill out the following form, thank you: https://docs.google.com/a/brewbot.io/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe-JUNMuNhoXC9KtbsQIpt2DNDbPgcYTay6MeQrn_0qhPdviQ/viewform

Chris

After immediately filling this out and asking what the next step(s)/timeline were I received this the same day:

I'm not sure at the moment. I've contacted Kickstarter about how to do this. Because it should be done via that system.

On it will get back to you.

Chris

On December 19th:

Hi Ken,

Don't really have an update on when we can do the transfer.

Kickstarter has changed a bunch from the time we were on it. We haven't really been given a clear understanding how we to do this now. A large % per pledge is taken through charges etc. So looks like with a refund we are going to take a hit on that.

We need to reallocate/release stock etc to do a refund. Working on this for you.

Chris

My exchange later that day:

On 19 Dec 2016, at 19:39, wrote: I would like to ensure we stay on top of this and keep it a priority. When can I expect to hear an update from you? I'd prefer a response such as this, versus not hearing anything. I do not feel that this is an unreasonable request and would like this resolved by Dec. 31st. without further escalation. Do you agree?

Ken

It is treated as a priority Ken, doing all we can to get this sorted.

Will update you, asap.

Chris 

Sent from my iPhone

On December 28th I begin to feel as if BrewBot isn't going to be around in the future...

Yes, committed to processing this refund, but it's very difficult to do. 




There are a ton of reasons for this difficulty for example: we've stock that we purchased Q4 2015, Q1 2016. The pound has dropped in value twice since then thanks to Trump/Brexit. We've been trying to sell parts in bulk to other brewing suppliers in the UK but they want to buy for much less than cost price. Everything is worth a fraction of what we paid for it. We are trying to firesale it so I can get you a refund which is decreasing the value even more. 




Unfortunately I can not give you a firm date or response, I really wish I could.



Chris





On January 9, 2017 I am still being delayed:



Yes, committed to processing this refund, but it's very difficult to do. 




There are a ton of reasons for this difficulty for example: we've stock that we purchased Q4 2015, Q1 2016. The pound has dropped in value twice since then thanks to Trump/Brexit. We've been trying to sell parts in bulk to other brewing suppliers in the UK but they want to buy for much less than cost price. Everything is worth a fraction of what we paid for it. We are trying to firesale it so I can get you a refund which is decreasing the value even more. 




Unfortunately I can not give you a firm date or response, I really wish I could.



Chris



Finally, January 13, 2017 and we have his plan:



Hi Ken,



I wanted to have a personal call so you know I'm real and I'm pouring my all into this. 



Things are really tough right now but I'm not walking away. I'm going to extraordinary measures to make it right. There are many stakeholders to consider. We've raised other money from people who also stand to lose all their investment if we can't navigate to a good outcome.  It won't help any of them if you turn up the heat. 



No promises that I can pull it out of the fire but I assure you I am working through all the options as well and as quickly as I can.




Lastly, I do have progress on your refund. £290 can be transferred via PayPal today. £800 will be transferred January 24, and the final £410 January 31. I hope this is amenable, if so please send me your PayPal address.



Thanks,



Chris



Progress report, January 24, 2017 was sent in two transactions. BrewBot clearly is experiencing cash flow issues and access to funds problems:



Hi Ken,

I sent £320 just now, the rest will be sent the minute it clears.

We'd sold a few items and the money was withheld since start of last week. 

eBay said it is due to be released today. I'll send it the minute it comes through. 

Best wishes,

Chris



On February 3, 2017 I noted that while I received the GBP 1,500 it didn't match my cash outlay (due to currency exchange fluctuations) and received the following reply:

Ken,
Thanks for confirming the receipt of your requested refund.



Pledges for UK Kickstarter campaigns are in GBP. I checked with Kickstarter and £1500 is the refund amount. It means that you are no longer a backer of the project.

We remain focussed on making Brewbot a success for all our stakeholders and supporters. That means I am not able to comment on anything that could potentially threaten that success. 

Chris 







Shortly after, I was removed from the Kickstarter access to the backers forum and BrewBot's own forum has the certificate expire. I am no longer able to provide an update for you anywhere but here.

Latest Invest NI FOI Response

Just received an update to my Invest NI freedom of information request. This included a copy of the Terms and Acceptance by Cargo IO (BrewBot). Just started reading this and will likely have another follow up with them regarding what appears to have been an important clause regarding business operations and a potential breach of contract (to be determined).

Anyone interested in learning more?

"Refunds" are possible

Have been away for a bit on Holiday, but want to get some further information out to those that are watching this blog.

While many have been patiently and impatiently waiting for Chris to deliver a BrewBot to them, many others have been asking about refunds or assumed that their money is lost.

I started emailing Chris in December, 2016 to see if after three years something factual could finally be shared and will post that email chain soon. I'm speculating, but it appears that the creation of this blog and posts on the Kickstarter and BrewBot Forums put some pressure on Chris to re-engage with the backers, but he still never delivered anything other than weak "news coming soon" type content.

While not specifically asking for one, I was eventually offered a refund by Chris, payable via Paypal, in installments over several weeks (obvious cash flow issues!). I accepted his offer and eventually received a total of approximately $1,750 of the $2,500 (USD) that Kickstarter removed from my account on October 22, 2013. Unfortunately, due to currency fluctuations, the value of my pledge in USD is now less than the GBP pledge amount of 1,500.

Brewbot and Kickstarter now believe that they have refunded me and my access to the forums has been revoked.

I disagree and will continue to pursue a refund in full, BrewBot and Kickstarter accountability, and perhaps some real answers for the backers on what happened, and what the plans are for BrewBot.

Brewbot Forum Down?

Anyone able to log into the forum for Brewbot? I get a redirect too many times error and wondering if it is me or a system-wide failure. I can view the main website and backer info -just appears the forum is down.
Post your reply in the comments below (Success or Down Too!).
Thanks

Yes, Chris did post an update...

I do plan to have a full posting later this week about my email conversations with Chris that started late last year (and subsequently led to my starting this blog).

Before I repost his forum update, I just read this interesting and thought provoking article on Inc.

http://www.inc.com/quora/1-simple-question-you-should-always-ask-to-catch-a-liar.html

FYI - He may be referencing this blog in his posting. To date, I have not seen or received any direct communication from Chris requesting anything posted/emailed to remain confidential. To the potential investors that he mentions: What content of this blog is new information that you did not uncover during your normal due diligence process? I would be surprised if you were not privy to more information (including non-public financials) than I've been able to discover and share. Also, an open invite to any investor/prospect to contact me - even confidentially.

Now to Chris (reprinting in full):

chrismcclelland

3d

Hi everyone,
Fundraising
It has been a positive couple of weeks. We have some new funds interested and pleased to say we have some committed money due March .
There is still work to do to bank this, and we need more but it is a step in the right direction.
One of the key meetings this month got postponed, hoping that will bring further good news.
Data
As mentioned in our last update we have been collecting the data necessary to support ongoing due diligence as part of the current funding round. While we'd love to share some of it the timing is not right especially as it may end up in the public domain.
We've already found this to be a liability and has had a negative impact on our funding efforts. Potential investors are extremely sensitive to information leakage and expect confidentiality to maintained.
It's also sucked up valuable days, legal costs and advisor time.

---

So I urge you all, please hang tight. We are able to produce these machines. And we're working hard to get everyone brewing.

---

P.s.
I know some of you follow the progress of the bar. There is a new wine bar opening upstairs. A couple came with an idea to utilise the space, so we are letting them run with it. We are hoping it will help with sustainability.
__
As always, any questions let me know.

Invest NI Request Response

Chris from BrewBot has promised an update today regarding the cancellation of the January Town Hall and the "January 31 is a deadline for a funding conversation and should know more about a couple of other options."

This AM I received the attached response to an initial request from Invest NI. I have some follow up questions in to them and I have a couple of significant posts in draft for release next week.

Stay tuned here and the forum for Chris' promised update...

===================

                                                                                                                       

Mr Ken Koch Brewbot.answers@gmail.com	Invest Northern Ireland  Bedford Square  Bedford Street  BT2 7ES
	Telephone:	028 9069 8427
	Email:	john.miller@investni.com
	Our Ref:	FOI 978
	Date  3rd February 2017
Dear Mr Koch
Freedom of Information Act 2000

I can confirm that Invest NI has now completed its search for the information which you requested on Wednesday 11^th January 2017.

Was the [Brewbot] funding a cash grant, services or combination?

Between 2013 and 2017 Invest NI offered Brewbot a range of financial support (grants) towards R&D, market research and export activity.

Brewbot also received investment in 2014 through Techstart NI, an independently managed Invest NI Access to Finance fund.

A total of £ 88,257 was offered in assistance of which £ 43,973.30 has been drawn down.

Were there specific milestones/deliverable and if so were they met as part of this?

As with all Invest NI support, funds are only released on completion of key activity/delivery against agreed milestones, as set out in our Letter of Offer.  All claims to draw down against offers are vouched against these agreed milestones before funds are released.

Did Invest NI receive any value from this? (such as a share of BrewBot)

Invest NI has not received a share in Brewbot in return for grants offered.

The TechstartNI investment was part of the $1.5m investment round which has not yet resulted in any of these investors receiving shares in the company.

Were any intellectual property rights developed, owned or transferred to BrewBot as part of this engagement?

Invest NI did not obtain or transfer any Intellectual property rights as part of its engagement with Brewbot.

If you feel that the information we have provided does not fully meet your request please contact me on 028 9069 8427 in the first instance. You have the right to request a formal review by Invest NI within two calendar months of the date of this letter and if you wish to do so, please write to the Information Governance Manager, Bedford Square, Bedford Street, Belfast, BT2 7ES or email ‘foi@investni.com’.

If after such an internal review you are still unhappy with the response, you have the right to appeal to the Information Commissioner’s Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF, who will undertake an independent review.

If you have any queries about this letter, please contact me. Please remember to quote the reference number above in any future communications.

Yours sincerely

John Miller

Client Manager